Obama supporters: Chill! (UPDATE: PARTY!!!)

This is a brief note to my fellow Obama supporters.

I've noted in the last day or so a rising tone of panic and dread in some of you. "Hillary's going to take it to the convention!" you exclaim. "She's going to cost us the general election!" you lament. This weeping and gnashing of teeth has been exacerbated by an increase in Republican trolling on this site in the last couple of days, with truth-free Obama hit pieces coming at a more rapid pace.

To these Obamaniacs I say, "Chill!"

I don't mean that in a negative sense. In fact, I'm really only passing on the attitude of the candidate. Don't worry so much. For heaven's sake, many of us believe Barack Obama can be the best President in our lifetimes. The least we can do is give him the ball at the end of the game and have faith he's going to score for us.

From the beginning, Barack Obama has managed this election masterfully. Yet some of us, his supporters, still tend to act as if our judgement is better. He has said for a long time that this would go until the last contest, and it will. He has expressed confidence that at the end of the contests he'll be the nominee. Trust him. You don't know what he knows. For all you know he could have Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, Nancy Pelosi, and another 50 superdelegates ready to endorse on Wednesday. Have some faith in the guy. If he's ready to be the President we know he can be, then he is more than capable of finishing this out.

On Saturday, the rules and by-laws committee will meet. Their lawyers have said they can't institute less than a 50% penalty on MI and FL, so I'd expect that to be the outcome. At that point, and I assume within hours, we'll know if that solution is accepted by the Clinton campaign. They may at that point do one of three things. They may accept the ruling, which would be the best case. The opposite case would be they announce that they don't accept the ruling and are taking their case to the convention. The in-between case is that they announce that they'll decide what to do after the last contest on Tuesday.

Saturday Puerto Rico will vote. Hillary will win there, but not by the huge margins once predicted I suspect. Then Tuesday it's on to South Dakota and Montana, and then, we're done. We'll have all the numbers. The supers will have all they need to come to a decision. The party leaders have said that they want the supers to commit shortly thereafter.

Some of us would like Sen. Clinton to concede on Tuesday, but it's not likely. She will probably mull things over for a day or two and then either pick a time and place  later in the week, or decide she's not going to take a graceful exit and attempt a coup at the convention. Personally, I don't see Hillary Clinton as the anti-Christ of the Democratic Party. I think she realizes that there is no support in the party for a convention fight, that it would effectively end her political career to lose such a fight, that the odds of her winning said fight would be slim to none, and that she would then be blamed for any resulting loss in November. In terms of just practicality, I put the odds on Hillary not conceding shortly after Tuesday at less than 10%.

But what if Sen. Clinton chooses the nuclear option? What if she vows that, party be damned, she's going to take her fight to the convention floor? This is where you've got to trust in Barack Obama. He's known of this possibility for a very, very long time. I don't see him looking worried. I haven't even heard of anyone in his camp being worried. Give the team captain the ball and let him score.

The superdelegates in this race have not wanted, and rightfully so, to force Sen. Clinton out. At the same time there is no way they are going to give her the nomination, with Obama ahead in pledged delegates, without concrete evidence, not that he might not win in November, but that he simply cannot win in November. Absent that evidence the supers will coalesce around Obama in huge numbers. The general election campaign will begin, and Sen. Clinton, while she could make a little noise at the convention, would not have the votes to go anywhere.

So, fellow Obama supporters, chill out over the next few days. Cut the Hillary supporters more slack than usual. Don't let the Republican trolls draw you into debate. We'll watch Saturday's meeting with interest. We should let the Clinton supporters draw whatever they can out of Puerto Rico on Sunday. On Tuesday, I'm sure many of us will be up until all hours to find out the results out of Montana, but then it's over. There's not much we can do.

Well, there's not much, but if we really need to feel active there's something. Nothing says to the supers that the Obama juggernaut is unstoppable like continued financial success, so, if you're willing and able, we could all help by going to the Obama site and ponying up some more cash. It would be great if Barack could show a really good month of May to the supers while they're making their final decisions.

Have a cool few days Obamaniacs. Hope is in the air. Can you feel it?

UPDATE: It just feels so good to shuck off the stress and realize that it's all beyond our control at this point, at least for a few days. I call a PARTY! Everybody's welcome. We have lots of virtual refreshments and virtual entertainment. Supporters of all candidates are here. (I think there's a Gravel guy over in the corner talking to himself.) Leave your weapons with the hat check guy. Everybody must pass through the troll detector. It's such a nice day. Let's just put it all aside for a bit!


Display:


I'm as cool as... (2.00 / 9)

the other side of the pillow.

Rec'd


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:46:06 AM EST

I'm so cool . . . (2.00 / 7)

 . . . I make a penguin wear a sweater.


by vadasz on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:54:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm so cool . . . (2.00 / 6)

...I'm making ice cubes in my navel.

-chris


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:02:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you get the lint off? (2.00 / 5)

To use in drinks I mean?


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:25:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do you get the lint off? (2.00 / 3)

I'm cooler than a polar bear's toenails.

(H/T: Big Boi)


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm as cool... (2.00 / 3)

...as a frozen Mammoth, buried deep in a Siberian glacier, wearing Ray Bans.  


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:47:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am as cool (2.00 / 3)

as a snowflake dipped in liquid nitrogen, and on the dark side of the moon.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:09:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm as cool (2.00 / 3)

as Ernest Shackleton at the South Pole before all this global warming started at night.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:24:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm as cool (2.00 / 3)

As a welldigger's ass!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:36:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm as cool (2.00 / 3)

I'm as cool as Walt Disney's head.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm as cool (2.00 / 1)

I'm so cool, when I go to sleep the sheep count me.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's cooler than cool? (none / 0)


by dystopianfuturetoday on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ICE COLD!!! (none / 0)

I'm so cool I make Miles Davis look like Pauly Shore.


by Djo Dos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 05:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ICE COLD!!! (none / 0)

I'm so cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a week.


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Fri May 30, 2008 at 09:10:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm as cool (none / 0)

That's cuter than a pailful of kittens.


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Thu May 29, 2008 at 05:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Phantom Rec for the Waits reference! (2.00 / 2)


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do you get the lint off? (2.00 / 4)

cooler than Freddy Jackson sipping a milkshake in a snowstorm


by upstate girl on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:21:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do you get the lint off? (2.00 / 1)

I drink Freddy Jackson's milkshake!


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cooler than Luke's Hand (2.00 / 1)


Please don't associate moose with Palin, she likes to kill them.
by KLRinLA on Thu May 29, 2008 at 06:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm tempted to TR (2.00 / 1)

Because now I've got the image of navel-ice in my glass of whiskey.  And, well, ew.

Phantom troll-rated, that's totally allowed, right? ;-)


by sierradave on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:06:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is OK... (2.00 / 4)

I just looked at the defense budget, and apparently we have "naval ice breakers."  ;-)


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd TR myself if I could... (none / 0)


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:38:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm so cool . . . (2.00 / 2)

I'm so cool I drink chilled Courvoisier out of chrisblask's navel.


by deminva on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:40:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That tickles! (none / 0)


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:38:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm so cool . . . (none / 0)

Ew. This makes me want to cry a little...


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:12:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

chortle! (none / 0)


Donate!
by chrisblask on Fri May 30, 2008 at 12:23:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm as cool as... (2.00 / 1)

I'm so cool you could keep a side of beef on me for a month.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:29:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm so cool (2.00 / 1)

That I can make a whole crowd shiver just by walking into the room.


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 1)

i wish i could just swallow my own head and then come back out june 4th


by Monolithic on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:49:52 AM EST

Heh (2.00 / 3)

The craniorectal inversion imagery this evokes is both amusing and disturbing.
by Vancouverite on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh (2.00 / 1)

Mojo'd for using the word "craniorectal."


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 3)

How do you know when it's done?

When superdelegates aren't getting contacted by the campaigns. That means that both know it's already wrapped up.

So, check this out:

"Muriel Offerman said she's still willing to wait.

The Democratic National Committeewoman, one of North Caroilna's five remaining undecided superdelegates, said that she won't make a final decision until after the primaries are over.

"I had said early on that I would not make a decision until after the last primary at least," she said. "It may be later in June."

Offerman said she received a lot of phone calls after last week's primaries from surrogates for Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, but none recently."
http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_t he_dome/offerman_still_waiting_to_endors e


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:52:57 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

Well said. Calling Hillary supporters names, trolling them or the like convinces nobody and in their minds it only proves their point. And I think with some justification.

It's a nice day I think I'll go outside and enjoy it :)


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:53:27 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 1)

Beautiful spring day here in southern New Hampshire. One of those just picture perfect sunny, blue sky, 68 degree, spring days.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:26:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

Well we must be pretty close 'cause my day here in Southern NH is beautiful too (Peterborough)


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:38:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks (2.00 / 6)

I think the site needed that.

After New Hampshire, I don't think Obama's taken anything for granted.  

The Clinton camp... I'm not sure what their game is, but if they try to take it to the convention, they'll find themselves increasingly alone.  Honestly I don't think it's a great legacy for them to leave.  

Nobody is going to accuse them of being "quitters," that's for sure.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:54:05 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 6)

Very wise, very 'cool' words, if I may say so myself. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I also think it's very, very unlikely that Clinton would take this to the convention.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:54:28 AM EST

Hillary Supporter Thanks You (2.00 / 4)

As a Hillary supporter, I greatly appreciate you taking the lead in calming the Obama supporters here on MyDD. They have become overly zealous in their attacks on Hillary and her supporters (again). Good luck to you and your candidate this weekend.


by grlpatriot on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:58:36 AM EST

Rowdy Indie thanks you, too (none / 0)

Here, have one of these!  It's virtual tequila, real limes, essence of Wolf Howl and five shots of Grand Marnier.  I haven't come up with a name for it yet, but if you drink three fast I bet you can think of one...

I'll be right back, enjoy the music.

Roger!  What are you doing here!?!

-crish


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rowdy Indie thanks you, too (none / 0)

Is "essence of Wolf Howl" a real thing?


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sure. you're soaking in it... (none / 0)

...or is that marmalade?  And what are you doing fying that swan around the room?

Hey!  Those weren't chocolate cookies!

-sirhc


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 5)

Massively well timed and well written diary. Highly rec'd. I also think that Obama has played this end game very well, keeping his cool when we were sometimes stressing. I know there is this tendency to believe that the Clinton team can leverage whatever outcome they want if they fight hard enough but in this case Hillary, if she won't come to the sane conclusion on her own (which I think she will), will face a pretty impressive arsenal of national dems ready to show her the exit in face-saving, but firm, style. Thanks Travis for this well timed reminder to give the Obama team a bit of credit for toughness and determination.


by wasder on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:59:28 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 4)

I joined the "I'm so chilled" thread below (how could I resist?) and I agree in large part with your diary.

...but still, the battle is not won and snipers are still causing casualities...

There will be more pacing between now and next week.

My youngest daughter's birthday is June 4.  It would be a good gift for her future to have an end to this then.

-chris


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:05:59 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 6)

June 4th is my 25th wedding anniversary. To the younger MyDD'ers, the most important decision you'll ever make in you entire life is who will be your spouse. Though young and stupid, I was lucky enough to find the perfect person to spend my life with and I love her more now than a quarter century (yikes) ago. It's possible.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:30:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Congratulations! (2.00 / 2)

25 years!  Wow!  I've been thrilled to get to 10, myself! Have a great day!


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:43:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Congratulations! (2.00 / 2)

Yes, it is all the more amazing since we were both 4 years old at the time. ;-)


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:45:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Congratulations! (2.00 / 1)

Then let me warn you that turning thirty can make you do some weird stuff.  Maybe the experience of child marriage will help ward off the trauma of that imminent milestone.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:07:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Keep your wife away from Warren Jeff... (none / 0)

That shouldn't be too hard since he's in Federal prison.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Thu May 29, 2008 at 01:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Congrats! (none / 0)

We just did 21 on Monday (though we celebrate Nov 11 more, 25 years since our first date this year).

Lemme get you another drink.  Those two you got look warm.  You just have to try what I just invented, it's called a "Yo Bomber", and if I can remember what went into it I'm gonna open a bar and serve them all night, and then we'll all pile into your car and drive to Mexico!...

-chris


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:47:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary's plan (none / 0)

Clinton is going to take this to the convention.  Ted Kennedy's remained a powerful Senator after his convention fight and Hillary knows this.  She only cares about herself and her road to the WH goes through Denver.  

After she ruins Obama's chances at winning the GE at the convention she will get on board his bandwagon and she and Bill will campaign like hell for him until he loses in November.  After that she will be the lead Democrat in the Senate fighting the good fight against McCain for two and half years and then she will begin running for President again.  

If Obama and the supers have the ability to stop her we will find out shortly.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:15:27 AM EST

Re: Hillary's plan (2.00 / 1)

"After that she will be the lead Democrat in the Senate fighting the good fight against McCain for two and half years and then she will begin running for President again.  "

See there's the bit that doesn't work.  There will be 4 years of Clinton being trashed over and over again and blamed for the loss.  No way she wins even one state in 2012.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:22:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's plan (none / 0)

I have stopped saying "there is no way Hillary Clinton will..."   She has proved me wrong time and again.  

Once she ruins Obama's chances by causing a floor fight she will get behind him and redeem herself over the next two months.  If Obama does lose it will be close and chances are the Repubs will be doing something illegal or close to it to "help" McCain win.  The shift for the loss then moves toward Republican dirty tricks and Hillary investigates this in her role in the Senate.  All is forgiven after she nails a few R's to the floorboards and compromises with McCain to get some D friendly legislation passed.  

By 2012 Hillary will be redeemed enough to raise a shitpot full of money and a bunch of superdelegates before one vote is cast.  She learns from her mistakes in 2008, wins the nomination.  She puts an African American in the VP slot and wins the WH in 2012.  

I used to make the same mistake you are making right now.  I used to think Hillary had a line she wouldn't cross.  I was wrong about that.  She has no line.  She is also the best liar I have seen... ever.   She will lie her way to forgiveness/redemption.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:47:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's plan (2.00 / 1)

"The shift for the loss then moves toward Republican dirty tricks and Hillary investigates this in her role in the Senate.  All is forgiven after she nails a few R's to the floorboards and compromises with McCain to get some D friendly legislation passed.  "

...and then Clinton votes for the bill authorizing force in Iran in order to make her look tough enough to be President and all of that good will is shattered.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:57:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's plan (2.00 / 1)

She doesn't care about Iran one way or the other.  If it helps her win the WH she will vote against the bill.  

If Hillary gave a shit about the Party she would have left the race after Wisconsin.  She isn't stupid.  She knows Obama has this thing won.  Why does she continue to run?  I have given you my answer above.  Maybe I am too jaded to come up with a positive reason for her to stay in the race but I have tried and I can't think of one.  What good reason does she have to stay in this race and compare FL to Zimbabwe?  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:02:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's plan (2.00 / 1)

I'm not going to argue if she has core beliefs or not, but if nothing else I do think she thinks that she wouldn't be able to win the White House as an anti-war candidate.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:09:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She. Is. A. Loyal. Democrat. (2.00 / 3)

No way this goes to the convention, for many reasons:

1.  She'll be blamed for Obama's loss if she does this.  Conceding in June keeps her hands clean.  Her presence up to the end has made Obama a stronger candidate.

2.  She wants to have a career after this.  Becoming the pariah of the party ruins her, and more importantly, ruins the legacy of her husband and any possible future in politics for her daughter.

3.  She also wants to preserve her place in history.  If she ends this in June, her name and groundbreaking achievement is secure in American history books in a positive light.

4.  Finally, she is a loyal, fiercely partisan Democrat who would rather cut off her arm than destroy an election that we are expected to win in 1932-size margins.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:54:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She. Is. A. Loyal. Democrat. (2.00 / 1)

1.  She'll be blamed for Obama's loss if she does this.  Conceding in June keeps her hands clean.  Her presence up to the end has made Obama a stronger candidate.

She won't get enough blame to hurt her permanently.   As I said elsewhere she and Bill will campaign for Obama tirelessly after the convention and their fake sincerity will convince enough people that she really wants him to win.  

2.  She wants to have a career after this.  Becoming the pariah of the party ruins her, and more importantly, ruins the legacy of her husband and any possible future in politics for her daughter.

Ted Kennedy had a career after his floor fight.  

3.  She also wants to preserve her place in history.  If she ends this in June, her name and groundbreaking achievement is secure in American history books in a positive light.

Becoming the first Female President in 2012 is the  place in history she truly covets.  Few people will remember much about her in 25 years if she never wins the WH.  

4.  Finally, she is a loyal, fiercely partisan Democrat who would rather cut off her arm than destroy an election that we are expected to win in 1932-size margins.

Loyal Democrats don't compare Florida to Zimbabwe or keep a campaign going months after it was lost.    


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She. Is. A. Loyal. Democrat. (2.00 / 1)

Jesus.  It never ends with some people.  Hillary is the root of all evil, and Bill isn't far behind, blah blah blah.  Don't you ever get tired of being so relentlessly negative? Is it so difficult for you to believe that loyal Democrats can differ about the best way to get things done?


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She. Is. A. Loyal. Democrat. (none / 0)

Is it so difficult for you to believe that loyal Democrats can differ about the best way to get things done?

The best way to get Obama elected is to fight his nomination all the way to the convention?  How do you figure that?  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:51:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She. Is. A. Loyal. Democrat. (none / 0)

What?  Where did say that?


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:28:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The problem is (none / 0)

she's out there undermining his legitimacy at this very moment, pushing the FL/MI and the "caucuses are illegitimate" line.  You need only look around this site to see her supporters swallowing that right up.

Look, I really would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, and I have in fact praised her in two diaries on this very site, but what she is doing right now at least gives one pause as to her commitment to a Dem victory in November.  Simply repeating that she's a loyal democrat is cold comfort.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 01:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem is (none / 0)

This argument holds no water for me right now.  If this were July, I might by your argument.  But it's not, it's May.  We have a few more contests, and then it's over.  There is a very long time between now and November, and the idea that because Sen. Clinton won't just get out of Obama's way this very minute means she's somehow damaging him is just ridiculous.

My guess is that there are maybe 6 people who know for certain what her intentions are, and with all due respect, none of them are posting in this thread. I don't believe that she'll take this to the convention, but that's just my opinion.

Obama and Clinton continue to energize people wherever they go, which lays waste to the idea that he's being damaged for November.  If anything, she's making him a stronger candidate, not weaker. After next week, I expect the supers to end this, but I doubt even then that will be enough for some of you.  

Both Clintons (and Carville, and Rendell and Begala, etc.) have said over and over that Hillary will be out there campaigning for the nominee as hard as she can, but I doubt that would convince you either.

I admire her determination and her grit.  If John Kerry had showed the same spine about Ohio last time, he'd be president right now and  our country wouldn't be in this mess.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She. Is. A. Loyal. Democrat. (none / 0)

She's not behaving like a loyal democrat, Denny...

Wow, I just sounded like Alan Shore! ;-)


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Thu May 29, 2008 at 01:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She. Is. A. Loyal. Democrat. (2.00 / 1)

Cigar Denny? How's the mad cow? ;-)


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 01:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Denny?? Boston Legal Denny? (none / 0)

You are the greatest, man!  C'mere, lemme get you a virtual beer!

<steps over Travis, who thinks he is leaning against a wall>

Say "KHAN!!!!" for me?  Please?

:~)

-chris


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Denny?? Boston Legal Denny? (none / 0)


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:16:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Denny?? Boston Legal Denny? (none / 0)


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:43:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i agree... (none / 0)

...history has proven there is no line that Hillary will not cross.

She will always fabricate some reason for her to soldier on as long as she personally wants to continue.

Everyone keeps assuming that she will do the reasonable thing, but I have seen no present or past evidence to indicate that she will.


d
by d on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's plan (none / 0)

I'm afraid you're probably right about everyone forgiving her.  I won't, but most will I'm sure.  After all, how can you explain why so many have forgiven her for her Iraq war vote and for failing to read the NIE before casting the most important vote of her life.  It seems no matter what she does, they will blindly forgive her.


Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.
by Dirk Diggler on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:32:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

With respect, Hillary is not Ted (2.00 / 2)

She doesn't have anywhere near the political capital he did, but that would be between Sen. Clinton and the state of New York. She might be able to return to the Senate, but any higher aspirations would be done.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:39:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: With respect, Hillary is not Ted (2.00 / 2)

...and also 2008 isn't 1980.  There's much more focus on politics now with 24 hour news networks and the Internet.  


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:07:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's plan (2.00 / 1)

Taking it to the convention is only a viable threat if she can hold her block of super delegates to together. She may not give a crap about what a floor fight will do but they do. If Obama gets the majority needed they will expect her to concede or they will abandon her.

Without her party supporters behind her she will look ridiculous taking it to the convention and will be a threat to no one but herself.

The best she can hope for is she concedes in June after Obama gets a majority of delegates, campaigns like hell for Obama and secretly hopes that she was right and he loses. That is her only possible path to the White House. If she takes it to the convention and loses she is finished. If she takes it to the convention and by some miracle wins she won't be able to get elected dog catcher.  After a real convention brawl she will be radioactive to segments of voters she can not win without.

If she can't convince the super delegates to give it to her in June (and that looks close to impossible) her only path to POTUS is supporting Obama and keeping her fingers crossed that it does not go well for him.


by hankg on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 1)

AFter the meeting on Saturday, then when the primaries are over - Hillary will appeal the decision, and head to the convention in August fighting Obama.


by nikkid on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:17:27 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

This is what is going to happen folks.  Panicking about it won't help but we shouldn't pretend it won't happen.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:21:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 3)

I think it's unlikely, but possible.

She will have massive superdelegate defections if she takes that route. And, frankly, I think a lot of her delegates earned through primaries and caucuses would also defect; those tend to be state and local party folks whose loyalty to the party goes beyond their loyalty to the Clintons.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:27:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

I hope you are right but my odds on a convention fight are 50/50.  IMO, Clinton only cares about herself.  If she doesn't win the WH in 2008 or 2012 she won't be President.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:35:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 4)

Hey, hey hey! We're trying to chill here. Don't harsh our mellow!

You could be right, but there will be plenty of time to go there starting on Wednesday. Right now such speculation does nobody any good, and it's really such a short time until we'll know for sure.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

Sorry.  I didn't mean to take a dump in your diary, but I think it would be a mistake to chill at this point.  We can't trust Hillary to do the right thing for the Party.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's OK. I'll drop by and pee in your pool later (2.00 / 2)

You may be right about what Hillary will do, but what can we do about it at this point? Not a thing. We are mere spectators, watching the closing minutes of (at least) this phase of the campaign. I just think it's a time to dismantle and clean the flame throwers. Get out the WD40. Fill up the tanks. Make sure everything is in working order.

Have a virtual martini on me. It is a bit of a cliffhanger we're watching, but we've got the best guy possible on point, and we're awaiting orders.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:02:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Go on offense (none / 0)

The more people hear about the "evil Hillary" theory the more people won't buy Hillary's bogus reason to stay in the race until the convention.  Obama and his gang can't come right out and say Clinton is ruining his chances at the WH on purpose.  If we can make enough noise about it on the internets maybe the MSM will write a story or two about it.  

It is also important to remember that the Press wants a floor fight.  

I hate to sound this paranoid on beautiful sunny day, but conventional wisdom has been wrong at every turn during this nomination battle so it is time to look for unconventional wisdom.  I just don't understand what Hillary's motives are and that is disturbing.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:11:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ya, but... (2.00 / 2)

Hey Ya-but!!!!

Right now this is all based upon the speculation that Hillary will not do the right thing. Keeping in mind that every candidate, ever, has said that they'd fight to the end, even while writing their concession speech, we don't know what Hillary will do next week. Obama knows that this is a time to wait, reload, recharge, and see what's next. We don't look good (IMHO) attacking "what if's", and assuming the worst. Better to leave the opening to do the right thing, but be prepared should the red alert siren go off on Wednesday or Thursday.

Virtual margaritas are done! Do I smell virtual buffalo wings?


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:23:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ya, but... (none / 0)

Time will tell.  We agree on this. Thanks for the wings.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:26:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's OK. I'll drop by and pee in your pool l (2.00 / 1)

She cannot force a convention fight if the delegates don't stay with her. If the supers come out in force next week for Obama, Clinton can complain but what can she do. She will be outnumbered.


by wasder on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:14:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's OK. I'll drop by and pee in your pool l (2.00 / 1)

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner. Have a virtual buffalo wing.

(You over there. Get a room! This is a family virtual party. That's taking coming together to extremes!) Excuse me. Gotta run.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's OK. I'll drop by and pee in your pool l (none / 0)

Her goal isn't to win it is to "help" Obama lose.  She lost this race months ago.  

In the immortal words of Kyle Reese:

"Listen and understand. Hillary is out there. She can't be bargained with. She can't be reasoned with. She doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear. And she absolutely will not stop - ever! Until Obama's campaign is dead."

Didn't Hillary serve on the board of Cyberdyne Systems Corporation?  Coincidence?  I think not.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:34:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your mistrust of Hillary (2.00 / 1)

is a little disturbing to me but you're certainly not alone.  If you had taken the time to read anything she has written, read her bio, learn about just some of the amazing things this amazing woman has done over the course of the last 38 years, you would not think so poorly of her.  It saddens me to hear Democrats verbalize Republican framing of Hillary Clinton.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:58:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Only if (none / 0)

she has massive voter defections. In order for her to drop out, her poll numbers need to drop. As long as she is beating McCain, even if Obama is too, she stays in it.

The only way she doesn't take it to the convention is if her voters abandon her.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How about when they stop polling her next week? (2.00 / 1)


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:09:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They won't stop polling her (2.00 / 1)

in the GE unless she's out.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:52:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe you're right. Are they still polling Paul? (none / 0)

Latte? We can put a lil' somethin somethin in that for you to kick it up a notch if you like.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 01:19:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK. Maybe. We'll see next week. (none / 0)

There. You're entitled to your opinion. I hope she doesn't go there. I still have a reasonable hope that she has principles that will guide her in a different direction.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:47:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

Stop trolling the threads, wouldja? You're a detriment to representing your candidate.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:31:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I tend to agree. (none / 0)

I hope she doesn't, but i think she will take this to the convention.  If she hasn't admitted that she can't or won't win at this point, what in the world is going to change that between now and the convention?

The history of our politics for the past decade has been that the most unreasonable scenarios are what actually occur, so I now expect that she will continue on until the convention.  The whole time she will claim that she is helping Democrats by keeping the race "energized" and boosting viewership of the convention.


d
by d on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't have a drink! Here, (none / 0)

take one of mine.

The food is over there, just past where KnowNox is dancing with the bear (is that a bear or is that Vet75?)...


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

Hillary Who? Her last name escapes me.


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:19:13 AM EST

I'm a Seattle sports fan and a Democrat (2.00 / 1)

...I'm so used to having victory yanked away from me that it's very hard to imagine winning.  I'm trying to chill, but it's not always easy.

As long as Bill Leavy [1] isn't in charge of the rules meeting this weekend, I guess I can relax.

[1] Head ref for Super Bowl XL.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:20:42 AM EST

Pittsburgh Was Better (2.00 / 2)

The Seahawks played well, but Pittsburgh was the better team.

Seattle has a couple of championships: The Seattle Sonics in the 70s and the Seattle Storm just a few years ago.

But let's be realistic. Most of the time Seattle just don't field good teams. If they field good regular season teams, they aren't good play off teams. Victory is rarely yanked away. It's more like victory was never on the horizon to begin with.

In my lifetime, the only candidate that I rooted for to begin with, and won the presidency was Clinton in 1996 (and Bill Clinton never excited me that much). I rooted for RFK (68), Humphrey (72), Brown (76), Carter (80), Hart (84), Hart then Simon (88), Kerrey (92), Bradley but quickly switched to Gore (00), Dean (04) and Clinton (08).  Now that's being Seattle like.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:34:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pittsburgh Was Better (2.00 / 1)

Pittsburgh was NOT better.  They had better press because they're not a west coast team, but the Seahawks were a really good team.  We didn't play 100% that day, but with any breaks at all, we win that.

And don't bring up the Sonics right now, since they're going away despite Key being rebuilt in 1994, because someone wanted a basketball team in his city, so he just bought one and will move it.

Clinton's moves right now are reminding me of the '97 M's bullpen, just enough to pull defeat out of any victory.  Going to the convention would be the Varitek and Lowe for Sloclumb trade all over again.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:00:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Five Stages of Drinking (none / 0)


http://larrymillerhumor.com/media/index. php

2. 'You just spent 20 minutes arguing against artificial turf...'

3.  'You just spent 20 minutes arguing for artificial turf...'

4. 'You are artificial turf.'

-chris  


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 06:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So maybe that's what we can do! (none / 0)

You're right! It's not easy. It's not even in my nature, but what if we turn it into an affirmative action. After going to the Obama site and making a contribution, we can all do the most difficult thing possible. We can keep a cool head when those around us are boiling over. I like that. It's difficult, but it's something we can actually do.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:49:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Booo hiss! (none / 0)

Seahawk dead-ender!

Only Obama can unite Steelers fans and Seahawks fans.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:54:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booo hiss! (none / 0)

yeah, but is he good enough to unite Browns and Steelers fans?


by hopeful on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:05:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booo hiss! (none / 0)

Or Cowboys and Redskins fans?


by JustJennifer on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anything is Possible! (none / 0)

Cowboys Booo, hisss, boo, hiss;

Skins, Yay!! Wee, Yay!  Awesome!

Actually, the only one who could possibly do that is maybe Malcom Kelly, the Cowboy at heart new WR for the Skins


Please don't associate moose with Palin, she likes to kill them.
by KLRinLA on Thu May 29, 2008 at 06:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booo hiss! (none / 0)

Or Eagles fans with...well...anyone?


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu May 29, 2008 at 07:08:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nobody's that good... (none / 0)


Donate!
by chrisblask on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:12:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 4)

Ah good points.  I've found myself steadily heading downhill in tolerance for what I perceive to be bullshit from Hillary lovers and Obama haters, but a good reminder to keep it civil and cool regardless.

We'll know a lot more by the end of next week.  I don't think Hillary will jeopardize Obama's chances if he gets to 2026 or whatever the number ends up being.  She wants to remain a powerful figure in the democratic party, and if she's seen as torpedoing Obama's chances, she'll have a pretty tough time convincing people that she isn't as bad as her most vicious detractors say she is.  Hillary's much much better than that, so don't worry.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:25:30 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (2.00 / 4)

Many good points raised in the diary. 2nd Guessing the candidates has laid waste to both pundits & supporters this season.

Obama continues ignoring my direction of his campaign, and is succeeding because it. Lol.

June 3 is the day Jimmy Carter singled out as the day he would announce, and the day that Clinton should...well...I don't want to paraphrase his words. In any case, should be obvious by June 5 if there is a real intention for a floor fight.

To be really worried about it, I'd have to believe BOTH things:

1. That Hillary's dumb enought to do it.
&
2. That Barack's dumb enough not to stop it.

I guess many people might believe one or the other, but I can't believe that both 1 & 2 are true.

Yes, I worried about it, but not so much.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:45:53 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

How exactly do you stop someone if they do want a floor fight?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:08:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters: Chill! (none / 0)

Know what you call a floor fight when you don't have the votes to do anything?

(Really short.)


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]